News Flash!

 

News Flash!

 Posted by Susan Shand on January 10, 2013 at 5:05 PM Comments comments (6)

News Flash!

 

I am postponing my planned subject for today’s blog in order to update you on a previous post. Earlier today this exchange occurred beneath my blog post “ditties, doggerel and jingles” on the 6th January. The full conversation is available in the comments section to the post and will remain there for anyone who wishes to read the full text. I recommend it!

 

S.M. Abeles 03:48 PM on January 09, 2013

That is more or less what I am saying, yes, but the difference is the weight we accord the harms. The implicit notion quoted in the post, that a haiku that does not follow the s/l/s is “doggerel” is so far-fetched that, once a hokku student is exposed to the larger world of haiku, it is unlikely to be believed. (See, e.g., Marian Olson: if you love me / come inside / morning glory). Likewise, the implicit notion in the quote above, that a haiku lacking in “zoka” is “doggerel” is also too absurd to be credited. (See, e.g., John Hawk: the way his eyes / light up just so / pair of aces). (Note, I am reciting a couple of my favorite haiku from memory, apologies for any errors). Thus, the harms of hokku-theory are likely to be amerliorated, while the benefits — reduction of the poet’s subjective impulse, exposure to some taoist theory — become potentially useful tools in the poet’s toolbox, to use or not.

 

 

robert d. wilson 09:52 AM on January 10, 2013

Opinionated rantings without a shread of academic endorsement. Back up what you are saying, Susan. Unsubstantiated opinions are a dime a dozen. I applaud Hansha for his statement regarding hokku.

 

 

geaneditor 07:33 PM on January 10, 2013

Hi Robert thanks for dropping by. Is not Academia a place where people share their opinions based upon the consensus opinion of their predecessors and peers. Did you not just express an opinion? This is of course a blog and not an academic paper: our mission is to “hear your voices speak” so we welcome ordinary people’s thoughts and opinion. Opinions are like arseholes — we all have them and they are all different. There is room for us all.

 

 

Susan Shand 07:36 PM on January 10, 2013

Hello Robert, long time no see!

I can’t quite refrain from jokes about rattling chains …but if you insist on me delivering the evidence I have an interesting snippet from an FB group which I could post? Otherwise I think that the argument stands for itself on empirical evidence and logical argument alone. If you can see anything which doesn’t then please do point it out and I will back it up with someone else’s opinon, empirical evidence and deductive logic if you like.

 

I’m not surprised that you support the incoherent nonsense above, since it is essentially a patchwork of the opinionated rantings and pseudo-mystical dogma that you yourself have been touting around the bazaars for some while. Hansha’s attempts to ameliorate the extremism of your position is creditable, as is his willingness to attempt to defend it openly. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to stand up to scrutiny very well.

 

I do hope that you enjoy the rest of the blog posts here. None of them quote you or refer to anything published by you so if that is all that interests you there’s no point in you trawling through looking for it, I will save you the trouble and time.

 

Just out of interest, here is Robert’s rude and judgemental response (in the FB group “The Hokku Tradition – Basho) to a decent haiku from a novice after Don had given it a strong and definitive thumbs down.

 

Robert D. Wilson

The tools can only be crafted by humankind or apes.tools are objects. Hokku is not an object oriented genre. This is a descriptive haiku infused with Imagism. Hokku is activity biased focused on becomingness.

 

Helpful and supportive teaching methods you use Robert! I don’t think…

I can’t provide my readers with a link unfortunately, because immediately after this exchange both myself and the Gean Editor were both booted from the hokku-Basho group and it has either gone secret or been deleted. I have also been booted from the simply-hokku group even though they claim to be open to debate.

 

So I think that rather proves my point about the lack of integrity in people who will not debate their positions and who defend themselves from the scrutiny and legitimate debate of their peers.

 

You might also notice, if you haven’t before now, how he rather unsubtly likens people who write imagistic haiku to apes — which kind of includes most of the ancient and the modern English Language cannon of haiku literature, I think.

 

 

Thank you for listening to this News Flash. Normal service will be resumed with the next post.

 

Susan

(stardate 20130110)

 

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6 thoughts on “News Flash!

  1. Reply
    Brendan Slater 11:33 AM on January 11, 2013
    Mainstream academia is pretty much overrated. It’s more about counting number of publications and bragging about the size of the latest grant to pursue, mostly superfluous research. If people believe most of the mumbo jumbo spouted by academics it just goes to show how brainwashed they are. Experience and gut instinct are far more important than peer-reviewed papers in the poetry world, the ‘science’ is totally objective, unless picking at grammar and the like. I’d much rather read a passionate writer explain his/her take on the scene and developments in it. Do we need hundreds of cross-referenced academic papers to dull the whole thing down or trust our instincts, as most ‘good’ writers write from instinct and experience do a very good job. Roll-on the enthusiastic amateur—keep it real!!!

  2. Susan Shand 04:53 AM on January 12, 2013
    Thank you Brendan. I agree with you. Its all a game.

    I HAVE written cross-referenced academic papers in the past which merely proved that I had read all the relevant academic books on the subject. I have read other people’s similar work which merely made mileage out of disproving someone else’s theory and putting their card instead on the house of cards. My work IS built on the sum of my knowledge and scholarship but this is MY voice, it doesn’t need to call on my predecessors for authority. It stands or it doesn’t , on its own merits. Where I have borrowed from other people’s work directly I have as far as possible given them credit for it. But I don’t see the point of dragging in other people just to back me up if I make a statement. Or of scattering the text with justifications, as if I needed the support of the already legitimised to speak my mind and make my arguments. I’m not in the game of building on the house of cards. I’m not speaking to academia or for the sake of academia, I’m talking in my ordinary literate register to ordinary literate people.

  3. Reply
    Susan Shand 05:29 AM on January 12, 2013
    I have now been provided with access to both groups mentioned in this post. I must thank the respective group’s owners.

  4. Susan Shand 06:15 AM on January 12, 2013
    Oh no wait… It appears that I don’t have access to the new SECRET group “The Hokku Tradition – Basho Workshop” after all!

    Must be afraid of dragons in there…

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