|Posted by Susan Shand on January 10, 2013 at 5:05 PM||comments (6)|
I am postponing my planned subject for today’s blog in order to update you on a previous post. Earlier today this exchange occurred beneath my blog post “ditties, doggerel and jingles” on the 6th January. The full conversation is available in the comments section to the post and will remain there for anyone who wishes to read the full text. I recommend it!
S.M. Abeles 03:48 PM on January 09, 2013
That is more or less what I am saying, yes, but the difference is the weight we accord the harms. The implicit notion quoted in the post, that a haiku that does not follow the s/l/s is “doggerel” is so far-fetched that, once a hokku student is exposed to the larger world of haiku, it is unlikely to be believed. (See, e.g., Marian Olson: if you love me / come inside / morning glory). Likewise, the implicit notion in the quote above, that a haiku lacking in “zoka” is “doggerel” is also too absurd to be credited. (See, e.g., John Hawk: the way his eyes / light up just so / pair of aces). (Note, I am reciting a couple of my favorite haiku from memory, apologies for any errors). Thus, the harms of hokku-theory are likely to be amerliorated, while the benefits — reduction of the poet’s subjective impulse, exposure to some taoist theory — become potentially useful tools in the poet’s toolbox, to use or not.
robert d. wilson 09:52 AM on January 10, 2013
Opinionated rantings without a shread of academic endorsement. Back up what you are saying, Susan. Unsubstantiated opinions are a dime a dozen. I applaud Hansha for his statement regarding hokku.
geaneditor 07:33 PM on January 10, 2013
Hi Robert thanks for dropping by. Is not Academia a place where people share their opinions based upon the consensus opinion of their predecessors and peers. Did you not just express an opinion? This is of course a blog and not an academic paper: our mission is to “hear your voices speak” so we welcome ordinary people’s thoughts and opinion. Opinions are like arseholes — we all have them and they are all different. There is room for us all.
Susan Shand 07:36 PM on January 10, 2013
Hello Robert, long time no see!
I can’t quite refrain from jokes about rattling chains …but if you insist on me delivering the evidence I have an interesting snippet from an FB group which I could post? Otherwise I think that the argument stands for itself on empirical evidence and logical argument alone. If you can see anything which doesn’t then please do point it out and I will back it up with someone else’s opinon, empirical evidence and deductive logic if you like.
I’m not surprised that you support the incoherent nonsense above, since it is essentially a patchwork of the opinionated rantings and pseudo-mystical dogma that you yourself have been touting around the bazaars for some while. Hansha’s attempts to ameliorate the extremism of your position is creditable, as is his willingness to attempt to defend it openly. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to stand up to scrutiny very well.
I do hope that you enjoy the rest of the blog posts here. None of them quote you or refer to anything published by you so if that is all that interests you there’s no point in you trawling through looking for it, I will save you the trouble and time.
Just out of interest, here is Robert’s rude and judgemental response (in the FB group “The Hokku Tradition – Basho) to a decent haiku from a novice after Don had given it a strong and definitive thumbs down.
Robert D. Wilson
The tools can only be crafted by humankind or apes.tools are objects. Hokku is not an object oriented genre. This is a descriptive haiku infused with Imagism. Hokku is activity biased focused on becomingness.
Helpful and supportive teaching methods you use Robert! I don’t think…
I can’t provide my readers with a link unfortunately, because immediately after this exchange both myself and the Gean Editor were both booted from the hokku-Basho group and it has either gone secret or been deleted. I have also been booted from the simply-hokku group even though they claim to be open to debate.
So I think that rather proves my point about the lack of integrity in people who will not debate their positions and who defend themselves from the scrutiny and legitimate debate of their peers.
You might also notice, if you haven’t before now, how he rather unsubtly likens people who write imagistic haiku to apes — which kind of includes most of the ancient and the modern English Language cannon of haiku literature, I think.
Thank you for listening to this News Flash. Normal service will be resumed with the next post.